King Lear

Noble: It’s hard to really admire anybody in the play actually. You can like them all a lot, and you can feel for them a lot, but it is hard to admire anybody. You can admire Gloucester, and probably Edgar’s morality. As for the sisters, Shakespeare always writes what is needed. It can be very frustrating, especially for actresses, because it often happens with the female parts, that Shakespeare sees no point in showing you the bits of the iceberg under the water. He thinks that is a complete waste of scenes. It doesn’t mean that the bit that is revealed does not have a complete world of which it is a part. Exactly the same thing applies to Gertrude and Lady Macbeth, whereby when the function ceases to have a crucial element or a driving force, Shakespeare just stops. Lady Macbeth and Gertrude just stop. Actresses tend to think there must be a missing or lost scene, but there isn’t. Like the Fool in the second half of the play, it isn’t there because there’s no need for it. It doesn’t mean you can’t make it completely real, but you have to come at it from his time, not like a movie. The actor may have a backstory, but you can only show so much because you don’t need anymore.

Nunn: I think it would be wholly wrong for a production to suggest that Goneril and Regan are of evil disposition at the beginning of the play; but there is a degree of ambition in their behavior, and there is a degree of competition between them, and possibly there is that element of hidden resentment of how their much-the-younger sister has become the favorite of their old father.

Traditionally, late-nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century versions of Lear did indeed go very strongly for the interpretation that Lear himself was always to be seen as kind and gentle and white-haired and frail. And therefore a delightful old man goaded intolerably by two wicked sisters. When Peter Brook did his production in 1962, there was a sense that an extraordinary revolution had taken place because Brook, absolutely honest to the text, said: “Lear is behaving entirely unjustifiably, now he’s behaving appallingly, and now he’s behaving absolutely beyond the limit to the point where no father can expect to get away with that.” It was a production that tried explicitly to exonerate the sisters. I remember that, at that time, the impact of revealing Lear’s behavior as frequently unacceptable hit home very strongly. Now, of course, any production trying to propose that Lear is a close relative of Father Christmas would be laughed off the stage. The Brook view has become the standard view.

However, we do still have to explain how Goneril and Regan get to a condition of alarming ruthlessness in the second half of the play. All I will say is—especially if anybody hasn’t seen the play before—watch out for the moment when Lear utters his curse on Goneril, and particularly his curse on Goneril’s womb—a curse more bloodcurdling than I hope any lady in the audience will ever hear in her life. We all know that when dreadful things are said in rage, those words can never be unsaid. This is a major turning point of the play and causes Goneril to become vengeful, regardless of consequence.

The blinding of Gloucester is perhaps the most horrific moment in all Shakespeare. How did you stage that and did it have contemporary resonances for you? In Trevor Nunn’s 2007 production Regan behaves with sadistic glee that’s also a kind of fear—it inevitably conjured up the American soldiers in Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq. Torture in times of war is something that just doesn’t go away …

Noble: Yes, it had resonances in the sense that it confronts you with the most shocking things that humanity can do to humanity, but I almost never make references to contemporary events, because in my view it’s a blind alley. Scenes like that talk directly to the audience and their souls and hearts. You don’t need people coming on in flak jackets and dressed as Iraqis.

It is a dangerous scene for a number of reasons. It’s dangerous because the blinding is done to an old man, and secondly, it’s completely plugged in to this extraordinarily dangerous sexual relationship between Cornwall and Regan. It’s plugged in to the scheme of the play in terms of the breakdown of order and the dawn of chaos. It’s a wild, very, very unpleasant scene.