Tapping Hitler's Generals

SPONECK: Yes, it may be holding now, but once the great collapse comes, I don’t for a moment believe that National Socialism will survive in the memories of the people–will be able to arouse the slightest enthusiasm. Communism, perhaps.

[…]

Document 37

CSDIC (UK), GRGG 197

Report on information obtained from Senior Officers (PW) on 20–1 Sept. 44 [TNA, WO 208/4363]

[Conversation between General HEINZ EBERBACH and his son Oblt. z.S. HEINZ EUGEN EBERBACH]

FATHER: I can only tell you that the whole thing is hopeless. Individual places such as BREMERHAVEN[85] and DARMSTADT,[86] have been bombed to ruins, and so it goes on the whole time. You must realise that so far only a quarter of their air force has been attacking us, the remaining three-quarters having been used to attack the occupied countries. It will all be concentrated on us now. According to the German news a population of two million is now to be evacuated from the RHINELAND.[87] How are you going to set about it? They are already approaching from the other side, from EAST PRUSSIA, and they will all meet in the centre. I was very well informed about the whole of the STAUFFENBERG business.[88] Even when we were out at the front ROMMEL[89] said to me: ‘GERMANY’s only possible hope of getting off reasonably well lies in our doing away with the FÜHRER and his closest associates as quickly as possible; that will give us our first chance of reaching a bearable peace.’ ROMMEL said that!

SON: Well, that’s no reason for it.

FATHER: It was the same with RUNDSTEDT. I’m really pleased that he has reappeared because he intended to conclude an armistice with the English, in order to transfer the troops from the West to the East as quickly as possible, and allow the English and Americans to march in unopposed, because it will be far better for us, if we’re occupied by Americans and English rather than by the Russians.

SON: I’m quite certain of that. I simply don’t believe that the English and Americans… so very much about the Russians.

FATHER: Yes, that’s the other side of it, of course. In that respect STALIN has given very definite assurances that he will adhere strictly to the agreements. It has been laid down that the Russians will under no circumstances advance further than the ELBE.

SON: Well, that’s all right!

FATHER: Yes, but if the others reach BERLIN or the ODER first, then the ODER will become the river which–it would still be much better for GERMANY.

SON: Well, actually I’m convinced of the same thing, but for the time being I still believe in V-2–V-17.

FATHER: That’s finished. V-1 would have been all right six months ago, but it’s all too late now.

SON: But why? Now we are using the new weapons which are for use against aircraft, tanks and so on.[90]

FATHER: Really?

SON: And then we’ll use the other things.

FATHER: It’s all coming too late. Everything is being smashed up whilst it’s still under construction. Three thousand bombers per day over GERMANY is too much of a good thing.

SON: Three thousand seems to be rather too many.

FATHER: You mustn’t forget that a war has never yet been really decided by a new weapon.

SON: But there’s one thing you mustn’t forget: if we had a weapon against aircraft today, then the war would be decided.

FATHER: And do you believe that such a thing will still come in time? Those are all things which may already be known of in the world of science, but have yet to be brought into being. That is to say, it’s a matter of six months, at the very least. I know how long that kind of thing takes. In practice it will be a good year before–

SON: Yes, but back in June or July it was already said that these things were in the final stages of completion.

FATHER: I’ve had too much experience of that kind of racket. I must say that this last period on the Western Front almost knocked the bottom out of my world. In those last hours over there, when it really did depend on our doing the right thing and leaving us to do it, it was appalling how HITLER ruined things for us by his personal interference. So that even people like Sepp DIETRICH, who really is a loyal disciple and who had just got the ‘Diamonds’ and ‘Oak Leaves’ almost turned revolutionary. That means something in the case of Sepp DIETRICH.[91] I mean the fact that DIETRICH might have adopted exactly the same attitude as we did–if he hadn’t known that he would be killed in any case as soon as things began going badly for the Nazis.[92]

SON: It all depends in his case. Actually he was always a fighting man.

FATHER: Yes, but under his command the ‘Leibstandarte’ killed thousands of Jews.[93]

SON: What do you think about the men like HIMMLER, GOEBBELS, SPEER and so on?

FATHER: There is no doubt that HIMMLER is one of the people who has done us the greatest harm throughout the whole world.

SON: Yes, he has certainly done that, but the question is whether he hasn’t achieved a hell of a lot.